Ep. 001 | (Pt. 1) Here we are, like it or not: Trump's America?

In Part 1 of the pilot episode of Better Nation, host Igor Alves delves into the implications and widespread support that led to Donald Trump's re-election as President of the United States. The episode was mostly recorded on the day of Trump's re-election, yet it explores socio-political phenomena way beyond.

Igor unpacks how political dynamics shape our nation and explores the need for civil, authentic discourse to understand diverse perspectives. He addresses the challenge of connecting with people who feel alienated and duped, the maddening influence of tech-enabled provocateurs, and the breakdown in trust towards "educated elites," and the rise of unbound "broligarchs." 

This two-part pilot episode aims lays the groundwork for the show and its uncompromising yet thoughtful consideration of both vital shortcomings and promising public policies, local and global, that just aren't realistic in our current media landscape.

Chapter Titles:
00:00  Introduction to Better Nation
02:17    Vision for the Show
03:56   Alienation and Trump's America
08:29   More Cheap Stuff But Less Real Relationships
12:05    The Selling of Aspiration through Parasocial Influencers
14:21    The Power of Nostalgic Myths
18:40   Processing Trump's Re-election and Our Collective Pain
25:56   "Society of the Spectacle" (Guy Debord!) and Tycoons Unleashed
30:36  The World's Largest Ship and It's Oligarchy Takeover
32:20   Conclusion (Part 1)

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Visit us at https://betternationpod.com (more soon)

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Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction to Better Nation
• 2:17 Vision for the Show
• 3:56 Alienation and Trump's America
• 8:29 More Cheap Stuff But Less Real Relationships
• 12:05 The Selling of Aspiration through Parasocial Influencers
• 14:21 The Power of Nostalgic Myths
• 18:40 Processing Trump's Re-election and Our Collective Pain
• 25:56 "Society of the Spectacle" (Guy Debord!) and Tycoons Unleashed
• 30:36 The World's Largest Ship and the Oligarchy Takeover
• 32:20 Conclusion (Part 1)

Transcript

[00:00:00] Welcome to Better Nation. I'm Igor Alves. Thank you for being part of this journey. I'm not sure how far it'll go, but hopefully it'll be valuable to you. 

[00:00:09] It's a couple days before Donald Trump president once again. And my hope is that this goes public on the day of his inauguration. I originally recorded this episode on the day of his election in November of 2024.

[00:00:27] I don't really feel like it's productive to make it all about him. 

[00:00:31] I'm hoping to create a space with unfiltered yet civilized conversation. I think so many of us are really hungry for that. 

[00:00:40] I hope you enjoy my initial thoughts for this show. And I'd really love it if you can send me feedback and comments and questions. Enjoy the show. 

[00:00:56] So, this just happened. Trump's America. Victory changes nation's sense of itself.

[00:01:18] I'm here not only trying to figure out what to say, but what door to open, what future conversations . Does it make sense to have? And I'm much more comfortable and used to being behind the camera. I Talk a lot but behindthe camera for the most part behind the production with a team of people who curate and get the best sort of nuggets of messaging.

[00:01:52] It's very difficult to do that in real time and as you're speaking, at least it is for me. So I think it's always intimidated me a lot but these are interesting times that are obviously very triggering I want to try to set vision principles for what it is that I could help bring to the table.

[00:02:17] This episode is a different format of what I imagine future episodes being like. I'm hoping to make this be a conversation and interview series. where I speak with people from diverse backgrounds, different political views who are not necessarily famous people executives, but they can be.

[00:02:42] Obviously, I think there'll be common ground, but I'm hoping to push on certain assumptions. I'm hoping they push me back, having a sense of humanity underneath it.

[00:02:54] I want us to , In person have a type of conversation that cannot successfully be done on Facebook or on Twitter. Or through memes shared on Instagram or even on the cable news where they're just shouting at each other with 30 second sound bites and overly rehearsed hacks, sorry to say. And there's just too much space given to those people and people have gotten pissed off hearing them for too long. 

[00:03:27] And it's not an accident why non- journalist, non- official pundit podcast hosts have taken the establishment players by surprise and been such a factor in the last few years people became tired of their media landscape consisting of these paid consultants and professional pundits trying to shape the narrative left and right.

[00:03:56] So , Donald Trump was just reelected president of the United States after his third time running. No surprises here. In terms of who he is, what his message is, who his people are, what he represents, and who he's against, which I think defines him and his movement as much as what he stands for.

[00:04:23] It's also clear that that resonated with millions and millions of people in this country.

[00:04:30] We so are so desperate for people who can come across as real quote unquote and authentic that even the crude mannerisms and almost shameless performance that Trump and others like him put on. It's not a weakness. It's really a strength. It's something that helps his brand in the end and we need to learn from that, and, understand how not to take that in a ever more toxic direction. 

[00:05:01] Anyone who is, professing legitimacy for for science or intellectual, gravitas or academics that's not really seen as a, argumentative strength the way that maybe it was 20, 30 years ago. There's such a rejection of people who are seen as part of the system and the more educated classes. So, Those people need to get with it, and they just haven't, uh, to a large degree.

[00:05:29] A lot of other people like me who did not vote for him are doing a lot of soul searching, which is the phrase that keeps coming to my mind people are desperate and looking for answers and they have been for a very long time.

[00:05:43] And the supposed educated, sophisticated, cultured, elites, he's defined them as causes for people's pain and alienation and given them easy to grasp explanations for their own sense of displacement for their feelings of inadequacy, for their sense of loss for a nostalgic past of of strength and virtue and like a muscular patriotism that was easier to blossom when we were in the Cold War, when we had a clear enemy.

[00:06:36] Defining yourself and uniting your tribe in contrast to who you were against. So we had the Soviets here in the U S to keep a minimum amount of groups together, even though the divisions in all of the things have always been there and have never been well resolved, which is how we're here today.

[00:07:00] Knowing your history is so important to getting through these issues to trying to find solutions, to understand like how we got here, why people have been feeling certain ways.

[00:07:14] I studied political science, and economics. I had a particular interest in power dynamics in society. I was really fascinated by how political, economic, and cultural elites interacted with one another.

[00:07:34] How does that coordination occur? How is it that power is diffused and concentrated and passed on? I remember one of my favorite professors would always tell me, when you're coming out with this theory of the world and and society, you need to try to define like how is it that those with greater power, replicate that power.

[00:08:01] Because, or else, you're just making an observation at a place in time, but you're not actually trying to explain how these things continue. 

[00:08:09] It's not like it's always the same exact people who have a disproportionate control. But there's definitely a through line of a certain kind of person, a certain kind of mindset in order to have outsized gains and rewards in our society. 

[00:08:29] We've reached a certain stage of market capitalism in the U S that has provided us with a lot of access to communications and cheap tech items and goods.

[00:08:51] That would just make people who've lived before us just blow their minds. At how we can have all this stuff and how we can have it so fast at our fingertips so cheap and we could talk to anybody around the world in a split second. 

[00:09:04] But definitely there's been a loss of interpersonal communications of interpersonal bonding of sense of community. And there's all kinds of people who try to awaken themselves and pursue approaches to fill that void that so many people are feeling soothe the pain that has spread so deeply.

[00:09:29] That's a powerful force when you have people that feel alienated and like they are missing something more meaningful in society than just having the latest thing from Amazon show up really quickly, when there's only so much retail therapy you can do to plug the hole in your heart and in your soul.

[00:09:53] People that are especially attuned and trying to get in touch with their more spiritual side also end up getting commodified and then you feel like oh man so much for those retreats in Bali that now become consumable nuggets of travel videos on Instagram then you feel like, Oh, nothing sacred, or there's like a fashion brand that tries to capitalize on all of those principles to sell you more product.

[00:10:28] So it's not just the yoga pants that have become the product attached to those original teachings that we're trying to reach a more soulful place, but then the way in which that advertising occurs is a product in itself and then the people who are doing the messaging Now, widely known as influencers.

[00:10:52] They also become productized and this cycle reinforces itself a pastiche version of what you were trying to get at in the first place. So it's super disheartening 

[00:11:08] Like, you're touching the sculpture you're seeing out in the desert it looks beautiful, you go to touch it and it just melts in your hands and when you went to touch it, you actually saw it fall apart, the very act of touching destroyed it.

[00:11:23] Because it could only really exist in the desert. as a projection, as a fantasy, as an aspiration in your mind, the moment it becomes real, it becomes disappointing.

[00:11:38]  This phenomenon has actually changed our relationship with reality. Reality has become a mediocre bummer to escape from.

[00:12:05] We have so many people selling us aspiration. Some people selling us little adrenaline shots or is it adrenaline or is it serotonin? One of these. Hormonal shots of aspiration and the concentrated form that it comes in has gotten stronger and stronger where maybe before, decades ago, we could have felt like in the movies.

[00:12:31] There was some of that and it's like a two hour three hour experience to make you feel that way Then in the age of TV That got shortened some more down to maybe like an hour You're down to like a half hour sitcom showing people living lives that feel so great and more interesting than yours Then we get to reality TV time of what like the last 20 years I guess and That feeling Is just in certain moments like a five minute scene with a Kardashian going some yacht somewhere And it keeps getting smaller and smaller the dosage that you need to get that aspirational feeling. Until now, here we are in instagram and tiktok world where I've sometimes gotten bombarded with videos that are two, three seconds titled something like the way he looks at her in this moment, 

[00:13:29] Maybe showing a celebrity or a model or something. Or a five second video where you just have an aerial shot of this, over the top, gorgeous travel location.

[00:13:39] And then of course, the moment you, you take yourself out of that feed, the moment you unplug, you look around and you're: Oh, I'm more alone than I've ever been. 

[00:13:52] We live in houses with less amount of people than ever.

[00:13:55] We hang out with friends less than we ever have. We go less often out to buy our things because they can be delivered to us, even the restaurants now, right? You order from the app and have it delivered. 

[00:14:09] Your reality is one where you're just isolated more than ever, and you don't have to be bothered, but then it's in the being bothered, it's in the friction with the rest of society that you're actually connecting with it and that you're actually surprising yourself that you're absorbing that day, that space not that you're black and white and you're just really hungry for the color world that's out there with the better versions of yourself.

[00:14:42] Okay, what do we do about it? How do we turn the needle of progress in a more caring direction?

[00:14:53] And create a world where it feels like people are less broken which is definitely where we are. We know that much. 

[00:14:58] People think so much of the guiding forces around them don't have their best interest in mind. The system is broken They're broken along with it But of course a broken people will lead to a broken system as well.

[00:15:14] There's this interplay. It's not a one way street. So until we can heal a lot of angry, resentful, confused, scared people, it's hard to heal the system. 

[00:15:35] I think that's part of one, one topic that I think we'd like to explore more. 

[00:15:39] Even talking about , very specific, creative ideas around public policy, around urban planning, around supporting people and their families could start getting us beyond a slogan world of political discourse that we live in.

[00:15:58] I'm geeky enough to want to discuss things such as rotundas. Like high speed rail. Like, beehives at the bus stops. 

[00:16:10] Those very specific ideas, they plug in to an ecosystem that people operate in. And in a country like the U. S. where so many of those small everyday supports are missing, it just makes for a rough experience at life. It just roughens you up, which Americans take with a sense of pride, right? It's almost like we've already failed to dream of a more supportive world. Of a world where people don't have to feel so anxious and on the edge, where they can literally live longer lives and better lives. 

[00:16:48] This stress, this lack of support, this lack of health care access has made it so that the U. S., I think, is the one of the only advanced countries where the life expectancy has not gone up. And maybe even declined for men.

[00:17:03] I don't know how you can continue to draw pride from conditions that kill you.

[00:17:09] But that's not too surprising because when we're used to pain and hardship, it starts to define us.

[00:17:19] Being proud of that hardship being proud of the challenge Is Your coping mechanism to survive in that world I know that even from growing up As an immigrant Child in Ironbound. You embrace that, you embrace the bricks. You make the challenge part of who you are and whoever you are when you're growing up, when you're in that formative age of, 10 to 20 years old uh, that defines a lot of how you see the world and how you see yourself in it. 

[00:18:01] So if that is the world that you are in at that age, even if you know, it's not really the best for you you always look at it with a sense of nostalgia.

[00:18:12] Because we want to believe that we came from a purer place that there was a purer time  that at least many of us felt protected under the umbrella of our parents that had a built in community when we were going to school. We had buddies, we had strong friendships, we had adults who looked out for us, teachers, coaches, at that age, you're operating in a world actually with a lot of support that you will not find for the rest of your life. And I don't think it's by accident that we romanticize it. 

[00:18:52] I think that. We fail to see the reasons why we cherish our youth so much.

[00:18:58] And these are some of them, I think. It's because we actually do have way more support and connections and love and touch and physical contact that we don't have then in our adult lives. 

[00:19:12] Until some of us become parents, right? It's not so surprising that so many people, I think of my generation have actually leaned in so much to parenting because it gives us that somatic connection that is missing in so much of our lives. 

[00:19:33] Everything else feels like it's a simulated experience. You're experiencing so much of the world reality your aspirations through through a black mirror. 

[00:19:45] And fundamentally, we gotta feel in our bones, in our body, that it's not the same thing. Yet it's so achingly close, it's so immersive, that it appeals to us in this addictive way. 

[00:20:01] I think that happens to us individually, but then you multiply that out and all of a sudden you have this group nostalgia for the better days of yesteryear And it feels like a comforting, soothing story that can be passed on because we're doing some major editing of what those years were.

[00:20:27] And when we're being exposed to all of the inputs in our reality today, we're seeing all of the grime and all of the ugly and all of the annoyances of the everyday. 

[00:20:37] Like, I have a bit of a cleaning obsession and getting things organized, etc. And I don't remember what it was that was bothering me 20 years ago or like what the thing I had to fix.

[00:20:50] But I'll remember little league. And I struck out a few people in a row. I also remember when they hit like two home runs in a row and how bad that was. 

[00:21:01] Your mind is pretty selective about the information it leaves off in the everyday annoyances, they don't feel like they exist in the past or in the parallel universe of a simulated experience in the fantasy of a Parasocial Relationship which is what so many people have been drawn to now with following influencers or Would you call them influencers like the OnlyFans Girls and guys like that?

[00:21:32] I don't know what they would be called. I guess they are influencers. It feels so achingly close that they are there with you in real life because we're so hungry for it. But it doesn't stop being a simulated experience productized by a technology platform to either sell you membership, take money from you directly, sell you advertising or suck up your personal data and then resell that.

[00:22:04] I guess it's just a heck of a way that we navigate through life now. 

[00:22:08] In many other points of history, like this would feel like a dystopia. Like that, what I just described, like, wait, this is how people have to navigate the world? And this is what they subject themselves to? And they, yeah, it is.

[00:22:21] Why do you do it? Oh, well, it gives us those drops of adrenaline or a great feeling it relieves our boredom. The escapism is so easy , to achieve now. 

[00:22:35] How does this circle back to like this political moment? Well, we've, taken that same mindset and those same dynamics that affect us as we go by about our day to day and that way of consuming life, of being influencer driven of being meme messaging driven. And now that's in the political landscape. Now you have a lot of people who are putting tons of energy and money in weaponizing that and they have the added benefit of computer systems that can track exactly what gets the people going even more. It's scary how they can socially engineer people to get riled up you just light some of these fuses and then people are going to start setting off the firecrackers themselves.

[00:23:31] And we feel it all like in our personal relationships. I just had a good friend today who is very calm guy overall share how livid and upset he was. And that he was blocking friends who were cheering Trump and stuff and, rubbing it in the face.

[00:23:47] I also sometimes get that urge. I've just kept maybe a few people online, just to get a pulse of what the other side is going through. But it's fascinating how fast people on a certain side can get in line with the same messaging. I feel like before it used to take maybe weeks. For these talking points to spread to people from a certain political leaning. But now, man, it's like people can all get on that talking point in the same day. It takes a day or two to get everybody. aligned behind the convenient messaging. 

[00:24:33] We just had a hurricane that apparently a lot of memes and things came out about the weather being controlled by the government to displace people and then mine for lithium or something complicated information, but that actually gets expressed so convincingly and through such gripping images, which now can be manipulated more and more that everybody falls in line and gets behind it because it's like a provocative thing to do the water cooler sharing. It just keeps you on the cycle of, self reinforcement and confirmation bias.

[00:25:10] One of the more recent ones: Oh, there's this big plot the Democrats are going to take all of the immigrants, treat them really well, let them become naturalized citizens. And then I guess, I don't know if they're going to bus them or fly them or somehow force them to go into swing states. And then I guess wait seven, eight years for this plan to come true, I'm thinking that's how long it would take for somebody to become a citizen on average?

[00:25:37] And then get them to be voters that would be loyal to them. If it seems fantastical, that is not as important as it feeling gripping, Oh, that's, that's compelling.

[00:25:50] I've gotten super into my philosophy side during the pandemic. There was a thinker, I'm forgetting right now, who he was who talked about the society of the spectacle, and how we are so drawn to things that are a spectacle, whether they're good for us or not. That's been activated as a modus operandi for politicians and for influencers.

[00:26:25] And some of these people can now generate gigantic megaphones like Elon Musk RIP old Elon Musk, but maybe you were always this guy. Cause I guess with greater power and riches, it may just reveal who you were inside as opposed to transforming you. I don't know, that sounds like a good topic too, right?

[00:26:51] Did the outsize influence, did the power corrupt or were you already corrupted and you were just like waiting for the opportunity to release your inner asshole? But of course you don't see yourself that way.

[00:27:02] And that's a fantasy that the ultra powerful and wealthy get to live out. That the average person doesn't and I think in this really twisted way donald trump and a lot of right of center alpha type guys have been modeling a fantasy of what unrestrained machismo and swagger can look like and be just quote winning.

[00:27:39]  That serves as the aspiration as the tonic to feeling like a loser. 

[00:27:46] I think a lot of these guys are tapping into that, they're elevating, not through policy, not through anything that's actually going to directly benefit the lives of people.

[00:27:57] And then a lot of people on the left start getting confused, like, oh, but they'll don't understand that they're not voting or supporting their own economic or social interest. I also grapple with that, but that's less important than the feeling that you get from the team that you're on.

[00:28:16] And these guys are selling this unrestrained fantasy, a lifestyle that 90 percent of the primitive male brain wishes could achieve with the caveat that a lot of that may not just be primitive it's actually been cultivated through media images, pop culture for a very long time.

[00:28:44] So, people are just like, yeah, I want to live like a movie star. I want to live like a rock star. Get to do what they want when they want and have that kind of unbridled freedom . Not have to give an explanations, not have to be subject to certain norms. And Trump is literally the figurehead A boss asshole who does not need to explain himself to anyone, or to any law. And it feels fascinating, right? To see a person be able to navigate and not get caught in life living that way. Because it feels like they represent this extra strong team of winners that you want to see yourself belonging to. If it's not today, you tell yourself. I don't want my avenue towards that fantasy to be blocked by all of these people that are asking me to apologize and to curtail my worst instincts Because that doesn't feel good and making me feel bad about myself.

[00:29:47] Obviously, the left, failed to see this dynamic and know how to, target its messaging to get people on their side. This is definitely an ugly result of that.

[00:29:59] They said something similar when Trump was elected the first time, but he being such a lucky baddie still benefited in his first two years of Obama's economic recovery, who spent those years like patching up the mess from Bush.

[00:30:16] And then his last two years where his policies kind of started to kick in, he actually had the benefit of being able to say that, well, if things went south, it's because of the pandemic. It wasn't because of his policies. People are like trying to remember him for his first year and a half or two years in office.

[00:30:36] When you're the captain of the world's biggest ship, whatever you do is not going to turn anything real quick. That's just facts. So there's a lag time between what politicians at the highest levels do and how those policies trickle down to people. And it's just hard for people to understand that apparently, you can show them the data, you could show all kinds of stuff, but people are like, well, how do I feel right now at this moment? And who's there right now? And that's what you care about. And, You know, Republicans have been really good at just understanding that they don't pay a political price for their irresponsible political policies like run up the deficit with their tax cuts and figured that well later. the government will be forced to cut its basic services because we've run up the debt so much it'll create actually extra pressure during that process of course more and more of the wealth keeps going into fewer and fewer hands and that's not a surprise right and that's who in my view is really the base the base is really those that are drinking the milkshake from the rest of society and forming oligopolies in each sector of the market oligopolies, not monopolies.

[00:32:03] As long as you can just keep it to two or three, the system is not built to challenge that. And that's how you can extract so much profit from so many people and then blame inflation on the other guy. . 

[00:32:19] Okay, thank you for listening to Better Nation that concludes episode one, part one which is a milestone because I've thought about, a podcast for so long. hopefully, you enjoy and share. See you next time.